PNG's And ImageMagick?

From: Moon (_Y_)
Group: private.lady_and_silver
Subject:ImageMagick Studio & PNG's?
Date:Wed, Mar 3, 2004, 3:28pm

ImageMagick Studio & PNG's?
I have lots of questions! LOL
I just took this to Pair and as soon as I entered the studio the PNG was all funky and looked like someone had ran it through blur at 10 lol

PNG20.png
129W x 147H
6.2 kb

Pair ImageMagick=Now Redux

Is this always the case? Or is it because the IM's are all forked up right now?

So what are the things that a person should know when working with PNG's?
Tips tricks Image personality profile? ROTF!!

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From: (LadyDi)

I've only taken pngs to IM twice - and didn't have a problem either time changing them to a jpg. But that's been a few months ago and things were working fine back then. I know different IM's have different problems so it's a guessing game lately. I'm not much help.

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From: Moon (_Y_)

I got this far with it.....

So the key is to composite them?
I composited on a black.gif and then on output changed to .png

tricompgold.png
200W x 200H
1.9 kb

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From:(Kathy)

Why not just output them as jpgs since they are composited on a black bg? Pngs are larger bite-size, right? Have you compared the quality versus bite-size to a png after compositing yet?

(_Y_): I answer this further on in this page

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From:(Nancy)

It`s been awhile since I`ve tried using a png at one of the IM`s but I`m pretty sure at that time I used either network11 or net4tv IM and the pngs I was playing with had transparent backs so I had to output them as gifs to keep the transparency. If you don`t want the transparency I would just try outputting them as jpgs without compositing them onto a back and see what happens.

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From: Moon (_Y_)
Subject: Re:ImageMagick Studio & PNG's? S'plain'n

Maybe I should S'plain what I am trying to do. Might help huh? LOL

I added a PNG section to Moons Stars.
Moons Stars

I haven't used PNG's but a few times and want to learn how to make good use of this file type. What I am interested mostly in PNG's ability to hold transparency with fine lined images like a flare for instance. Also PNG's are known for low pixel loss when compared to gif and jpg. So changing them to a format of jpg or gif kinda defeats the purpose. That is why I changed to png from gif that I composited on when outputting. Did I make one molecule or morsel of sense?¿

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From: (LadyDi)

I took the png to the IM you had posted and also to the one on our server - not webbyland - ours. And got two different "looks" altogether. Output as either png or jpg was basically the same -- so I saved the jpg. I see what you're talking about but don't have a solution.

PNG20DisBlur.jpg
129W x 147H
2.3 kb

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From: Moon (_Y_)

Thank you!!!! Exactly!
My lower lip immediatly went into a full pout! Now some of the questions are ....

Is the only way to get them to hold their beauty by compositing?

How do you get the transparency back? Or do you?

Nancy said something interesting. That you need to output in gif or jpg if you don't the background turns either white or black don't remember.

I tried making a xc generated transparent png. NOPE it turned black on output? Quirky file type or maybe I just need to learn how to pinch the PNG Pixels right?

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From:(Nancy)

I`ve had mixed results with your star and all of the results were bad. I took your star to both net4tv and network11 and tried inputting and outputting as a png, at net4tv the result look like Di`s, the same thing happened when I output as a gif and composited it onto a clear gif there. At network11 I did the same 3 outputs as at net4tv with the result being a small pin point of white instead of a star.

On the otherhand I have this website saved of pngs and when I take these to both of the above IM`s and output the pngs as gifs the results are very good, in fact most of the pngs at this site look bad when just viewing them but after after inputting and then outputting as a gif at IM they look really pretty good and you can see all of the detail that you can`t when you view them at this site.

Diana Todd Site:
FreeTubes
http://www.freetubes.com

So maybe there`s a difference in png types and some png types do good at IM if output as a gif and others do bad? I also have a feeling each IM handles them differently.

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From:(LadyDi)

I definitely think there is a difference in pngs. Your "star" seems to glow - almost like a built-in grad color. I tried making the back transparent on one try - and still ended up with the final image looking like what I posted. Upon viewing, I didn't have a black bg as you do with other type images you have transparified. It reminds me of lemon slices. hehe Anyway, sounds like we need to investigate pngs some more.

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From: Moon (_Y_)

I love that site of Diana Todd.
PNG heaven for sure!

In output for png at IM there are other png formats available. I wonder if they make the difference? Something like:

png16

png32

Which makes me think that is the amount of colors maybe?

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So how do we find out more about PNG's? Because of the ways they convert and manipulate. It makes me think that PNG's could be used to do certain manipulations that are problems for all imagineers.

Follow me for a minute.

If you create a xc image at a ImageMagic that is transparent. Say 560x560.

You out put this transparent xc image in PNG format and what happens?

It turns black and you cannot make it transparent and output in png ok?

I composited some PNG stars on a black.gif

Played with the filters a bit and then output as a png what happened? The black background turned transparent?!!!!! So I am thinking =maybe= compositing with a png and a filter of ? may on output be a great way to make a stubborn background of a image go *P00ƒ* and turn transparent???? Hmmm????

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From: Moon (_Y_)

PNG's Compare format results

Same image gif jpg png formats

Started with 19.png and composited on a black.png 400x400

twinblu01.png
110W x 100H
1.6kb's

twinblu01.gif
110W x 100H
1.5kb's

twinblu01.jpg
110W x 100H
1.0kb's

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From: (Nancy)

I also saw those different png output at IM but didn`t have time to play with them.Which IM are you using?

(_Y_): I used Pair for the first round with PNG all the others were done at Net11

Yep I absolutely love Diana Todds pngs,she has some really beautiful ones there and those are the ones that I`ve had very good results on resizing and outputting as gifs and retaining the details------I`ve mainly played with her plants, especially roses.

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From:(LadyDi)

Quite a difference in those images. As for looks - I prefer the gif or jpg - the png looks so much smaller and doesn't have that pretty glow.

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From: Moon (_Y_)

This is a interesting compare.

I took a image from Diana's Todds site. I will not post it as I respect her issues with bandwidth and respect her a great deal as well. The image can be found in her flares stars sparks fire etc category. It is a star dust trail looking thing.

I took it to Net11 ImageMagick since we were talking about Net11 working better with PNG's and at first I tried entering the studio with Diana Todd png to see how it would fair.
"FACE PLANT" lol
It got all white washed out or gamma'ed out I guess you call it? So I backed out and made a xc black image of 300x300 and when inside the studio I compositing the star dust trail over center. I played a bit resized stretched it coalesce it then I composited PNG18.png on it SW

PNG18.png
75W x 80H
3kb's

Resized flood filled with black and general image messing composited PNG18.png a couple more times while flip'n flop'n resizing yada yada...
The files are named xccompDTnMS which means:
xc = xc generated image
comp = Composited
DT = Diana Todd Image
n = And
MS = Moons Stars Image

Then the extension of the format of course.
Guess I should have put in something for Net 11 huh? LOL
I output in png format.

Knott Bad!

xccompDTnMS.png
200W x 300H
36.7kb's

T/Led and backed up and output in jpg

Knott Bad Either!

xccompDTnMS.jpg
200W x 300H
4.1kb's

So I T/L this jpg too and backed up and output in gif format

RUT ROW!

The studio slooooowwwed waaaaaaaaay down and dragged that gif format out of it's depths.

So I T/Led the gif format version and go into the sub after T/L to see what the weight is on that gif.

Holy Guacamole!

The gif format version is 83.5kb's!

This does not make sense to me!
I thought like Kath did that PNG was the Plump file type?
Not with this image apparently? So I back up to the first output and type in the image quality text area 50% to reduce file size since I am at Net 11 right?

WRONG!

It still weighs 83.5kb's.

So this answers the question that some of us had about the Net11 image quality no longer working to reduce file size. It doesn't work. At least it didn't when I tried it today.

xccompDTnMS.gif
83.5KB
xc comp DT N MS 50% Quail .gif
83.5KB

How Interesting!

I took the jpg version which is 4.1 kb's to MyImager
I converted it to gif format. It is 9.86 KB's in gif format using MyImager to convert file format!
That's more like it! I wonder why though?

xccompDTnMS-MI9kbs.gif
200W x 300H
9.6kb's

Four Tutorials About PNG Format

1.) PSP Tubes-2-PNG's White Edges By Pink!

2.) Rose Leaves - More About Using PNGs

3.) PNG's and Imagemagick?

4.) PNG Format: PSP, Adobe PhotoShop & WebTV

PNG's Stars Image Resource